6 Responses

1. it all depends….

   Hi John

   At the risk of being obtuse I’d have to say that it all depends on the value that you and your team might get from the investment in CIPD qualifications.

   Your profile doesn’t say whether you are an in house training team or an open market provider; this too will have an effect on the potential value you might get from further qualifications.

   Rus Slater

   http://www.coach-and-courses.com

2. Neither have effective evaluation methods

   John,

   I contacted TAP some years ago to ask how they taught evaluation – the simple answer is they don’t (or at least they don’t have an effective methodology). As the author of the CIPD’s textbook "Evaluating the ROI from learning" I would hope that is on the CIPD’s syllabus – but I can’t guarantee it because the CIPD have a policy of not actually saying they agree or disagree even with their own authors (yes, very helpful aren’t they). These days a ‘professional’ who doesn’t understand the subject of evaluation is not really a professional.

   regards

    

   Paul

3. recruiters

   In job adverts I have seem many people ask for "CIPD or equivelant" I haven’t seen anyone ask for TAP.

    

4. Take care!

   Having delivered CIPD CTP over recent years for a local college there are both advantages and disadvantages to the programme. Some delegates had previously acquired TAP and found their CIPD CTP very different and more comprehensive in terms of theoretical underpinning. The written assignment work of CIPD CTP did appear to challenge previous TAP delegates. Sadly it is possible to obtain CTP on the basis of assignment completion and the submission of a Management Report, without being a talented trainer. CTP is a Level 3 qualification and is described as an entry level qualification. 

   CIPD programmes are presently in the process of change, phasing out CTP and replacing it with a Certificate in Learning & Development Practice (CLDP), incorporating more of an HR emphasis, dropping the Management Report requirement and making some previous essential elements optional rather than mandatory. The assignment bank also has been changed and closer examination reveals very little scope for evaluation to be dealt with in any depth at all. My view is the new qualification is a much lesser creation and will not ensure the same standard as the outgoing CTP.  

   Whilst CIPD will claim L & D is a vital part of the HR world the realities on the ground do not always match the rhetoric! The new reflects this! 

   The decision about which route to take would, I believe, be made best with a consideration of organisational context and business need, as well as with an eye to future career progression – be it within HR or wider horizons.

5. what is “training”?

   Interesting question

   • "Is TAP foundation qualification still recognised as an industry standard?"

   The CTP & TAP are very different beasts – the CTP used to cover full cycle awareness and a basic level of skill in each of the elements, TAP on the other had focused on delivery – one part of the cycle…

   So which is better? – it depends on the role you have to do:

   • If you want people to do lots of delivery – then TAP may be the better option
   • If you want "management of learning" then CTP is the better option

   so what is training? …. it depends

   Mike

6. TAP v CTP

   Bit late for me to wade into the debate as I just spotted this discussion on a google search.

   We are often asked the same question at TAP. My stock answer is that it depends on what you want and what you are comparing? I took a CTP over 20 yrs ago and it gave me a good academic grounding. My employer then put me on TAP delivery skills course in order to learn 'how' to put the 'what' into action e.g. taught me the skill in the 'how'.

   Yes, the CIPD L&D offering is being reviewed by the ex Head of L&D at Hanover Housing (a huge TAP advocate I should add) but if you want a pure train the trainer, you can get them ten a penny on a google search, but none of them will have the robust TAP Queen's Award winning, skills-based assessable learning model that  drives learner centred training, leading to improved transfer to the workplace.

   It is also important to add that TAP has moved on and innovated over the years. No other organisation offers a comprehensive and unique qualifications framework of skills-based programmes, numbering over 20, offering every L&D skills a professional and all-round trainer, training manager or training consultant could ever need.

   That said, I don't think it is a case of us or them. We complement the CIPD offering and we do offer a Theoretical Basis of Learning model for the more academically minded professional. However, our programmes are commercially sensitive short courses, meeting the needs of business. If you're in any doubt, please ask Andy Lancaster, Head of L&D at the CIPD.