We've recently had a bad experience by being hammered for a lot of incidental expenses by an external trainer, and as a result I intend to draw up a list of items that we will pay for, along with maximum amounts. This list will then form part of the contract with the external trainers from the outset, and will avoid further arguments in the future.
The list will include such things as hotels, taxis, flights, telephone & internet use, meals and subsistence.
If anyone has a similar list that they are prepared to share with me, please email it to me at phildeer@hotmail.com or if it's not too long, you can post it on here.
Thanks.
Phil Deer
8 Responses
Expenses for outside trainers
Hi Phil,
I think your suggestions are pretty standard.
But you may want to be specific within them e.g. Milage at X pence per mile or meal / subsistence at a limit of X per day.
Also, from our experience, be clear on whether ‘travelling time’ (not just the actual expense of the travel!) is to be charged at the consultants rate!
In asking an external trainer to contract with you presumably they would have submitted a proposal in reponse to a tender?
As best practice we always clarify from the outset what is and what’s not covered in the cost breakdown when tendoring for work with clients.
Good luck in getting clarity established.
Regards
Lee
Couple of thoughts …
Hi Phil, I’m sorry to hear about getting your fingers so burnt. Great way to build up trust eh? You may also want to include (if not already) costs towards couriers, photocopying and printing as this can suddenly spring up from nowhere. On the hotel front: if your organisation has preferential rates with hotels which the trainer can use, I’d be inclined to book their room and get it billed back to you. I did this with a (more honest!) trainer we used to ensure we didn’t get stung. Luckily he saw it as a massive favour to him and was really grateful I’d done this! Kept everyone happy. Alternatively can you write into any agreements that all costs must be agreed in advance and any add-ons will not be paid?
one support comment and one anecdote
Pertinent Comment 1
I agree with Clare on the point about hotels; I’m an independent and I always try to get my clients to book hotels directly; no surprises, no mark up, no waiting to be paid for the expenses I’ve already paid…result all round.
Pertinent Comment 2
An associate of mine ended up with over £200 in charges and interest because one of her clients delayed payment of her travel expenses for no reason…..clients aren’t always innocent in these cases!
Silly anecdote
I agreed with a client that I needed to be provided with a roll of brown paper and a ball of string at their venue, for a process mapping exercise, they wanted to provide it themselves for reasons of preventing escalating costs.
They had a roll of 250 feet of brown paper and a 2.5 kilogram ball of string delivered by courier to the venue…..which was above a branch of a well known high street stationers. c£300 their own staff paid out for about £10 of equipment!
Whoops!
Trustworthy trainers!
Hi Phil
As a freelance trainer I normally expect my clients to pay for overnight accommodation (which I prefer them to book direct for me) and travel at actual cost (rail, taxi) or mileage at an agreed rate per mile. I don’t claim anything for meals and refreshments.
To cover other costs such as printing, ink, other sundry use of materials and my time in designing and planning the event I usually agree a daily preparation fee set at around 50% of the delivery rate. This is not usually more than 3 days and often less, depending on the subject and the amount of work required. That way the client knows up front exactly what they are paying for.
I would recommend that you discuss all of these things in detail with your chosen training provider and agree it in writing before you engage them. I’m just dismayed that there are trainers out there who behave badly (like others we have been hearing about recently!) and give the profession a bad name!
Good luck with your future provider relationships.
MP?
He wasn’t by any chance an Ex MP was he?
cost or price
Hi Phil
Interesting line “I usually agree a daily preparation fee set at around 50% of the delivery rate”
are you saying that preparation is worth less than delivery?
I have an hourly rate – its the same if its for prep or delivery
As for expenses I also prefer the client to book and pay for the hotel and usually state that it should be from a franchise chain (then we all know what to expect), Miles at x per mile etc
This should always be clarified upfront
Ex MP
More likely to be a moonlighting MP – they have not been pushed out yet!
Expenses plan
Hi
It’s not good for training when people get burned. We provide training, but it’s just as important for us to be clear with clients about expenses upfront is it is for them.
Our list includes:
Training materials – Either a per person or total cost. Be clear that any questionnaires or assessment tools are included here, you should not suddely get a bill for third party booklets or whatever
Accommodation -At cost, with a reasoanble set amount for breakfast and evening meal. Few trainers will object to you booking direct for them, and booking a bed, breakfast and evening meal rate ensures there’s no suprises. You should be clear whether or not you will pay for phone calls, wifi, postage, newspapers etc, I’d suggest not.
Travel – Public transport at cost, mileage at xp per mile. If working inter-continentally agree any travel time in advance. Agree class of travel. Don’t be shy about suggesting that you book and pay for flights or rail fares if you feel you’ll get a better deal. If you’re nervous calculate in advance the total mileage and agree that will be the cost.
Equipment – Check what your trainer will provide, for example, laptop, projector, telephone role play kits, video cameras. Double check that this is included in the price as the trainers ‘tools of the trade’. If not, do you have a projector etc available for them to use? Use that. Renting that sort of equipment is outrageously expensive. Is it really necessary? If so, agree a cost in advance.
Be specific, double check and don’t be shy about being explicit.