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CTP or not CTP!

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I noticed on a recent posting that the CTP training course has a variety of reactions from people who have completed it - not all good. I am looking to take the certificate in September, and am considering going to a local college and completing it over a year. A friend is in the final throws of the Malpas course, and has had a complete nightmare with it, hence my thought to try college instead to ensure more ongoing support.

I would really appreciate anybody's thoughts or comments on the various methods. I am new to training having moved to the role from HR a year ago. Am I doing the right thing, or should I avoid CTP altogether?!
Zoe Horwood

13 Responses

  1. Ongoing…
    https://www.trainingzone.co.uk/item/127808

    There has been quite an active discussion on CITP or not to at the above address on training zone.

    My feeling is not, I’m currently on the course and out of 12/15 people who have been attending only 2 or 3 have felt the course itself to be valuable and they have generally been those who specialise in only one aspect of training – e.g. evaluation or delivery who wanted a more general understanding of the profession.

    There are a lot of providers for “train the trainer” courses and it would be worth investigating alternatives before going the CPD route – who seem to give excellent training for HR but appear to have tacked training on as a badly though out extra.

    But… and this is a big but a lot of employers now required the CITP for both trainers and training managers and it is also likely to get you a higher salary than other courses after completion.

    But honestly if I could get my £1750 back, I would and I’d spend a couple of hundred quid on books with more ideas than the CITP is ever likely to contain and spend the rest in the pub!

  2. CTP: What it is
    This is an interesting debate. I too have completed the CTP and heard similar comments about it’s value or difficulty. The point about CTP is that it is not a train the trainer course. It is designed to help trainers understand the theory and processes behind the training function and to ensure a consistent and balanced approach to these activities in line with the theory. It is possible that in the early stages of a training career this may not be an appropriate route to take.

  3. I would CTP
    For me the CTP was about understanding the basics behind training and training sessions. It is a great starting point for further learning. From my perspective it was to give me an understanding to the theoreticl background and not to train the trainer or to give you a training tool kit as such.
    I enjoyed it and got to build up a group of contacts from across a range of inndustries who can lend help and support. That was worth the money – but I would be careful about the supplier you use for it. I would definately go on a recommendation.
    And yes – it does look good on the CV!

  4. Sorry to make your decision a bit harder
    I am afraid that I am going to put you back at square one now as I am in favor of the one year course CTP.
    I completed my course over 12months ago now at Stockport college in Manchester and at first found it really boring and the tutor very uninspiring then he quit and we had a different lady tutoring us who made the course fun, enlightening and a joy to go to on a Monday night straight from a long day at work (so you can see she must have been good).
    I had just finished my course when found the job I was doing was becoming a national role instead of regional and so started to look around for another position.
    Obviously it was not the only thing which got me my current post but I do have to say that it helped an awful lot and I recieved a higher salary because of it and I attended a lot of interviews against other candidates who did not have it.
    I was going to continue with the actual CIPD HR course but was told that if I wanted to stay in training and not go into HR at all then it would be a waste of time for me and instead I am doing an NVQ level 4 in Training & Development.
    If you are brand new to training and need some support and guidance then as long as you get the right tutor I am sure you will get lots out of the CTP 1year course and would recommend you go for it if you want to stay in training.
    Good Luck and I hope you make the right decision for you.
    Let me know how you get on.

  5. CTP
    Let me start by saying upfront that I work for an organisation that offers the CTP, so it would be wrong of me to suggest ourselves or comment on other providers.
    I would say, however, how depressing it is to hear so much poor feedback about so many suppliers. At present the CIPD puts very little emphasis on the quality of the training (but does assure quality in other ways).
    I would suggest that you look for three things.
    1. Multiple recommendations – don’t just rely on one person’s feedback
    2. Ask for the supplier’s report and accounts, or wherever else they publish their evaluation results. If they are afraid to publish their results don’t use them.
    3. Look for the pattern of delivery that suits you best and that mirrors the type of delivery you will be doing yourself (in other words, if you deliver modular courses then consider that route, if you design distance learning then don’t go on day release).
    There are good providers out there so don’t be put off pursuing the CTP.

  6. Long term value?
    Zoe,

    I really recommend you think about what you want to do with the qualification once you have it.
    Nik is wrong 69% of Learning and Dev jobs (at all levels)in the CIPD magazine dont require it.
    As a freelancer I’ve never been asked for it.

    A facinating and very detailed discussion on CTP and its worth to trainers within the CIPD can be found on their own website at..

    http://www.cipd.co.uk/communities/discussions.htm?command=view&boardid=75&id=279

  7. Training Career or Jobbing Trainer
    Mark I don’t agree agree with your comments about 69% of jobs not requiring CIPD, what level are your talking about? certainly not Management. I have and continue to meet people who have had a good start in business with no real professional quals who have a ‘career break’ then try and get back in where they where, result is nobody wants to know. One person I know had a brilliant Training Management job with a large well know company in London, left to have children then tried to return result is that she is working part time in the evenings @ college a couple of times a week and the rest of time as a jobbing trainer (OK if you don’t mind the extensive motorway travelling and mundane courses (How to use a stapler and hole punch correctly!).

    If you want to work in ICT then TAPS is a must and IITT membership will help keep you gainfully employed (Funny enough the IITT accept the CiTP for membership).

    If you want a successful career then Professional membership is a must (just for the Networking alone)it doesn’t have to be CIPD the Chartered Management Instiute is just as respected and I know just as many Training Managers who have gained MCMI

  8. Data
    Paul, please take time to read the link I attached in my original posting – it lists the detail of the research.

    The data comes from the jobs pages of People Management Magazine 8/4/04, 29 L&D are listed, 5 of them offer salaries in excess of £50k.

    It is prevalent across salary levels and this is recent data in the trade press.

  9. Qualification requirements
    Our research of job ads (over 250 over a recent three month period, for example) shows that for jobs in Learning, Development, Training and/or HRD, 49.4% required a CIPD or equivilent qualification. 20.2% mentioned an academic qualification (eg Masters). 3.9% wanted a sector specific qualification.
    However, the stats disguise the true story. Inside organisations people often move in to training because of their specialist expertise and flair.
    For external recruitment the CIPD or other qualification is not always a published requirement but, given a choice, employers are increasingly favouring candidates with a relevant professional qualification as well as good experience – lets face it, wouldn’t you?!
    Also, picking up on Iain’s point below, a good CTP programme is a trainer training programme. I would speculate that Iain went to a local College or a similar institution where there is often less skills work. If you are interested in being genuinely proficient, and not just getting the qualification, choose a CTP provider that delivers training not just education and that practices what it preaches.
    Graham

  10. CiTP or not
    As an ex-deliverer of CiTP for a private provider, I am concerend at the number of negative comments regarding the value or otherwise of CiTP.

    WhenI studied for mine in 1987 it openend many doors and switched on numerous lights for me. In short, it was invaluable.

    I say it is like anything else you buy/study for – it’s about finding what’s right for you. Ask to speak to past students about their experiences of the programme. Make personal contact with the Tutors and ask as many quesitons as you like before reaching a decision.

    Once on the programme, tell the trainers if you are unhappy about anything – they might be good but they aren’t mind readers!

  11. 1000 highly succesful candidates in 6 years
    Development Processess Group plc have offered the CTP programme for over 6 years. Success is not measured simply in terms of gaining a Certificate, organisations define success prior to the start of the programme on partnership with the candidates and DPG.All aspects of the programme are designed to provide a learner centred approach using a range of learning processes.Every 6 months we publish a magazine Training Times, this is full of articles written by candidates to describe their experiences. If you would like a copy ring Deborah on 0161 975 7777 or visit the DPG website http://www.dpgplc.co.uk to find out more about our programme

    Best of luck, with the right provider this is a great experience and highly developmental

  12. CTP Beware!
    Make sure that you get some good recommendations for the supplier of the CTP, as i went with one who were nothing short of diabolical. No support is offered at all, and i will pass the course by sheer luck and not guidance. For someone who is new to the training role i could have done with a better level of service.

  13. ctp – definitely “a good thing”
    I deliver the CTP in a College and am really concerned about the different experiences people have. I have first hand knowledge of the impact that this qualification can have – many of my previous students have got new jobs, promotions, wider remits as a direct result of doing the course. The biggest thing that they get is increased confidence – not only do they want to contribute ideas they feel they can do and be listened to.
    One of the issues is that many potential new entrants don’t get a chance to discuss their personal circumstances before joining the course. I interview all potential candidates and we discuss whether this is the right course for them. For some its not and there may be other options that are more relevant. So my advice would be – get as much information about the course and the approaches used, think about other options (the Professional Development Scheme or the level 4 qualification – the Certificate in Business Awareness.) One option for trainers is to do all training options in the PDS. If you combine this with the Management Report and the CPD you then gain the Post Graduate Certificate in Learning and Development (and get Licentiate membership of the CIPD too)
    Hope this helps.

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