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Eye movement – representational systems

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I'm looking for a questionnaire I once completed as a delegate on a communication course. Rather than complete the form yourself another delegate asked the questions and recorded which direction your eyes moved when answering. At the end of the questionning a score was calculated in order to establish whether you had a visual, auditory or kineshetic preference in communication.
Does anyone have an exercise that fits this description?

Many Thanks
Gareth Roberts

33 Responses

  1. Light the blue touchpaper…
    Last time I looked into this, there was no neurophysiological evidence (from peer-reviewed, published scientific papers) that this particular piece of NLP nonsense had any validity.

  2. Advice
    Hi Gareth,

    I can’thelp you with the actual quiz questions but if you have a search on google with a subject of Eye Movement Cue’s that might point you in the right direction.

    I hope that this advice helps you out rather than trying to force my opinions on you.

    Stuart

  3. Possible confusion?
    From an NLP perspective, eye movements and representational systems are 2 different things. Eye movements are triggered by the unconscious mind and one does not have any control over them. It also depends on what question is being asked e.g. visual recall & construct/auditory recall & Construct/kineasthethic/auditory digital.
    Representational systems are around a person’e preferred way of processing information. I have a questionnaire that can assist with establishing a person’s preference.

    If you would like any more info please email: [email protected]

  4. Eye movement calibration
    Eye access cues.
    This is talked about on many NLP training programmes. There appears to be little (read no) credible academic research to back this theory.

    If you have attended an NLP practioner programme you would have had one of these – there are some providers that allow you to buy the course manual on-line.

    As others have said this is (supposed) to be a reflection of your internal processes – not you communications preferences.

    There are a number of commercial tools that will help you to understand your VAK preference. I cannot put my hand on any contact detials at the moment – will update when I can.

    Mike Morrison
    RapidBI – Rapid Bueinss Improvement

  5. Eh ?
    maybe I’m being oversensitive, but I believe I was stating a scientific fact.

    Given visual accessing cues have no basis in fact, is it something you want to use valuable training time for ?

  6. what the site is about
    What I was trying to say that I feel that the site is about helping each other with questions. Let gareth make his own judgement on whether the techniques work rather than damning it straight away.

  7. Healthy debate
    Of course Gareth should make up his own miind but please dont censor Peter D becasue you disagree with his point of view.
    When trianing any ‘facts’ one has to be prepared for delegates’ challenges and also the validity/credibility of ones own arguments.

    Censorship is not what forums are about, debate, challenge and differing perspectives are to be welcomed.

  8. agree
    Hi Juliet,

    I agree with you in regards to it being an open forum and that we do get challenged by learners and if it appears that I was trying to censor Peter then that really wasn’t what I trying to do. I felt that Peter’s first comment was quite negative perhaps it could have been been a bit more constructive rather than just saying it was ‘nonsense. Would we say to a learner who had come up with an idea that we disagreed with that it was nonsense or would we be more constructive?

  9. Doesn’t follow
    >>>Would we say to a learner who had come up with an idea that we disagreed with that it was nonsense or would we be more constructive?>>>

    I understand and agree with what you are saying but your point is irrelevant in this forum. This isnt a training room, its a societal forum, a parish meeting – its not even a democratic one. Therefore your comment doesnt apply.
    In public debates/forums people speak their minds, thats what debating is – if you find that unpalatable – tough.

  10. Back to the point
    Gareth’s question was ‘does anyone have an exercise that fits this description?’
    Not can I have your opinion on whether it works or not.
    There are questions that come up in the forum that welcome debate, I asked a question about NLP a month or so ago that led to a long debate which I got a lot from. From both the positive and negative side of the arguement. So was my comment applicable? I think it was, Gareth wasn’t asking for a opinion or a debate he was asking for help

  11. Yeah but no but
    and people are allowed to point out the weaknesses with that help, whether you like it or not – otherwise you are censoring.

  12. Score Draw
    Fair enough I take your point. We probably will never agree about this totally and maybe this debate should be started as it’s own question as Gareth is probably getting all these messages through that have gone off course from the original question. Do you want to startit or shall I?

  13. Ding-Ding !
    OK, so my use of the word ‘nonsense’ was inflammatory and a distraction. Sorry. Nevertheless, swathes of this forum are devoted to seeking and giving opinion – there’s maybe not that much in training that *isn’t* up for debate! Back to the point – Gareth should maybe draw a conclusion from the lack of people rushing to the defence of visual accessing cues. I rest my case.

  14. it almost killed UKHRD …TZ next?
    Gareth

    This should hep you http://www.renewal.ca/newsletter0401.htm

    Appologies for posting this here.

    Some time ago on UKHRD someome would ask for some info then others would give their opnions – nothing wrong with that BUT we should be answering the question posed not creating a debate when one was not asked for.

    This type of reaction to a posting has stopped UKHRD in its tracks and has gone (IMHO) from top place to learn & share to second division.

    Lets not let this happen here too.

    If somone asks for xxx questionnaire – if you have it share it.

    If someone asks for your opinion – open house

    If we need calrification fine.

    Mike Morrison

  15. Freedom of speech
    Mike,

    We live in a democracy not a dictatorship, please dont try and censor people just becasue you disagree with them.

    This is a free service no one elected anyone else to chair it or pass policy decisions. Your premise is unrealistic.

    The internet is an anarchy not a democracy please acknowledge this fact and try not to police it, its not your job, that’s down to the administrators of the site.

    I do hate the ‘only my type of answers are allowed brigade’ – are they the same people that objected to Google search engine banning some types of searches for the Chinese – somehow I think not.

    Freedom of speech means exactly that – even if you disagree. Count yourself lucky that we are able to exercise it!

  16. Mixing up two different things
    As was intimated in an earlier response, I suspect that two different concepts are being confused (possibly by whoever adminstered the questionnaire to Gareth).

    1. Representational systems – an individual’s preferred way of taking in or giving out information. There are come simple, and some complex, questionnaires that give insight into this.

    2. Eye acessing cues, if they have any legitimacy (and my experience is that they do have legitimacy PROVIDED that you calibrate each individual because we do not all work the same way), relate to our internal processing and there seems to be some form of ‘hard wiring’ between what we are trying to remember/invent and where our eyes point. I don’t know of any questionnaire about this.

    Finally, don’t mix up MODELS – useful frameworks to help us think and which may or may not be true in generalisations – with reality.

  17. So what’s the point?
    No one is saying that we can only use ‘my kind of questions’
    The issue is that if people post questions asking for help and don’t get it are they going to continue to use the site? and if they don’t that will be a loss to everyone who uses the site!
    Why not trying if someone posts a question, rather than take over that topic with a debate, we start off a new question with your thoughts on the matter. For instance in the case of this question. Peter could have started a new question with his comments on NLP and then carried on from there. therefore we get the free speech anarchy that Juliet wants but also Gareth get’s his help.

  18. Have a questionnaire
    I’ve done a similar exercise and it was explained that the eyes may mirror how the brain retrieves/processes information.
    We were told that this could be a load of rubbish and to experiment in pairs to look for any correlation between eye movements and the type of question we asked. We did find a correlation, but sometimes our eyes went all over the place.

    I do think people have VAK preferences, but this didn’t tell us what we were. It just showed that if we were asked a question like ‘what colour is your front door’ our eyes looked upwards which was suggested as a visual recall. So it wasn’t linked to preference, just that the eyes seemed to move in particular ways to certain questions. This is turn was connected to how the brain is retrieving information at that point. But of course I could be mistaken, would an auditory dominant person recall the information as a sound? I doubt it, but then I’ve heard cases of people hearing in colour.

    If you want a copy of that questionnaire (no calculations involved) mail me direct.
    [email protected]

  19. answer the question or just invent your own?
    Juliet, as Stuart says, its not about censorship – nor am I attempting to police.

    You state “censor people just becasue you disagree with them” as it happens I do not beleive that this model is valid – So I agree with the statements made BUT it is not my position to tell a poster that he should not consider a model.

    If he thinks it was of value in some context that is for his intelligent decision –

    You say that “In public debates/forums people speak their minds, thats what debating is – if you find that unpalatable – tough”

    It is my understanding that this is call “any answers” not “any views”

    Debate when it is asked for YES.
    HELP when it is asked for YES.

  20. Freedom
    >>>BUT it is not my position to tell a poster that he should not consider a model.

    Yes it is, this is a FREE country, thats the disagreement, not whether you believe in the model or not. Its the ‘right’ to say it.

    If the government reduced your freedom to speak there’d be an outcry but why is it acceptable for you guys to curtail others and why cant you see that is what you are attempting to do?

    We will always get ‘rubbish answers’ to questions or answers that miss the point or are illogical. Shall we censor them as well for failing to be of sufficient quality?

    It is definitely about censorship.
    By forcing your opinion or view of how people should respond and how their answers are organised you are censoring.

    Wars are fought for less, I’m sure we can handle a little bit of robust debate and challenge, even if we weren’t expecting it.

    I appreciate its not an ideal system or an ideal world to have irrelevant responses but please dont try and control others as to how and what they say, its not your role at all.

  21. Do as I say
    Juliet,

    From your reactions to both what Mike and I have said, you are policing us. So your arguments of free speech fall a bit short as you are now telling people how to act!!!!

  22. Missed the point again
    No, I havent said ‘do as I say’ rather I’ve advocated ‘dont deny us our freedom of speech.’
    There’s a very importance difference.

    My perspective is libertarian, yours is authoritarian, niether of us were elected.

  23. and so….
    so let us have our liberty to say when we think someone has not helped.

  24. Moving goalposts
    I am….you’re the ones who want to take it further than that…banning, censoring, organising responses.
    Please dont change your reference points mid stream.

  25. Liberty ?
    .. and, Stuart, the liberty to express a viewpoint when we think that someone might be able to find a better use of their training time.

    While I agree in general that if someone has a tangential issue, they should start another topic, the bottom line for me is that this forum is about increasing the quality of training. Thus my reason in responding is that that piece of NLP is flaky and Gareth would not be doing himself, his participants, or the profession any favours in my view.

    May I also ask if both Juliet and Stuart could draw an end to this interpersonal debate. Some other bulletin board have rules of engagement. This one doesn’t, so there’s no common frame of reference and agreement doesn’t seem close.

  26. What a reaction!
    I thank those who have offered help in finding a questionnaire.
    I had no idea my post
    would turn into a debate about the merits of NLP or the appropriateness of your replys.
    My orginal question was answered by few and having had my inbox filled with replies which had little to do with my orginal request, I have learnt that I should consider sourcing information elsewhere.
    Had I explained why I wanted the questionnaire maybe then I’d have been happier with people politely stating it’s use was in their view ineffective. I didn’t state how I would use the questionnaire and have found some replies frustrating and less than polite. My question was largely unanswered and my interpretation of this forum is that it seems fairly hostile.

  27. Horses for courses
    Interesting reaction Gareth,

    considering you paid nothing for the information I’d count myself lucky to get a response at all.

    You are right though, a lot depends on how you phrase your question. Many questioners expect the world on a plate and exploit the freely given answers – they take but they dont give back. Cheers for your appreciative thanks maybe you’ll consider helping others for free as well.

    As for hostility – in any forum you will always get differences of opinion, thats the nature of society – internet forums have changed the way public meetings are held, in council chambers and parish councils, pressure groups and associations all over the country these kind of policy and differing perspective debates happen all the time. Its just that now that people are engaging online they find them strange. Having said that its usually the people who dont attend public meetings that find them strange.

    I guess like all things you get what you pay for.

  28. answering the origional question
    For those that are interested I have sent Gareth a copy of such an exercise (Knew I had a copy somewhere!)

    If others are interested I have made it available as a free resource on TrainerBase.

    Mike

  29. Well really…..!
    Mike,

    Considering your answer of 24th July, your most recent posting and the nature of preceding debate perhaps you should you consider adherence to the rules of the forum and not just contact the person offline and advise other readers to look elsewhere.

    “Responses to Any Answers MUST provide helpful comments to assist both the questioner and other interested readers which must be visible on the site. Blatant promotion of your own business services and postings which ask the questioner to simply contact offline, without providing helpful information on the forum itself will be removed”

  30. getting personal
    Juliet,
    My posting on the 24th was generic about behaviour and not pointing to my services or others.

    The document I have sent to Gareth is not branded in any way – plus there is no way I can put a 7 page document in this forum.

    I could have published a link to my own website and said to obtain the file from there – I did not I put the file in the public space on TrainerBase.

    If others wish to contact me directly then I am happy to do that but to put my email address in the forum IS treading on the toes of the rules.

    I would be VERY interested to hear from other readers as to their opinion if I have advertised my services in any way in this thread – or indeed if others believe I have broken ANY rules.

    My original contribution said that I had not found the model personally useful BUT did have a questionnaire but could not put my hands on it at the time & would do so – I HAVE DELIVERED MY PROMISE.
    EVERY contribution you have made to this debate has focused upon rights and wrongs – it is you that has not contributed to the content of this discussion in a progressive manner (IMHO).

    Ironically my second posting highlighting the impact of individuals behaviour on UKHRD is exactly what has happened in this debate.

  31. Self interest
    Mike,

    we all know Trainerbase is a paid for subscription service offering a forum like this and other things. What readers arent aware is there is an incentive for advertisers (like yourself) to attract traffic. To claim that you have make it available on another ‘public’ space simply because it wont fit on here is spurious and flies in the face of the rules of this forum.
    You cant have it all ways, especially if you try and claim democracy when all you are doing is gaining points by attempting to promote traffic to Trainerbase.
    You are correct to explore the merits of online networking – as some ‘networks’ are not as ‘open’ as some would make out.

  32. TrainerBase & self promotion
    Juliet,

    You are correct in saying that TrainerBase is a subscription service – however for first time users it is free and so are the downloads. This is a legitimate place for members of the profession to put substantial contributions. If TZ allowed this facility I would have used it, equally the CIPD do not allow that facility – or I would have used them.

    In the past a member of the forum criticised me for putting up the location of a resource on my own site – this document is there – BUT if I had put that address here I would be accused of advertising so I have not.

    It seems that some of us cannot win.

    As I have said the document is 7 (SEVEN A4) pages long. If you can recommend a place to put it that does not promote then please advise me and this forum.

    You say that I used TrainerBase to promote, – as I said I have sent the exercise direct to Gareth, I do not wish to be sending emails to “me too’s”

    Judging by the majority of the comments it doesn’t appear that many others are interested in the topic any way.

    Should I have bothered?

    You appear to have a problem with paid for services (note your comments about UKHRD when it went to a subscription service), and you appear to have a problem with people trying to provide information to others.

    When you offer substantial help on this forum – such as offering a workshop outline, handout or exercise where do you put that resource to make it publicly available?

    Rather than criticise please offer a solution:
    a) How can a member of this forum provide a resource to other users without ‘advertising anything’? – is this realistic?

    Mike
    Ed – what is your advice on this issue please

  33. Online forums
    a) How can a member of this forum provide a resource to other users without ‘advertising anything’? – is this realistic?

    I’m not here to solve that problem…and why should I? I’m not paid anything for my contributions on here and I sometimes dont get the answers I’m looking for. Please see my answer and the article it refers to on your other post).
    Thats one for the owners/managers of the forum. Clearly they either dont want or dont expect subscribers to upload 7 page documents. Perhaps it was never envisioned for Trainingzone and perhaps you should have envisaged the limitations of forums that structure responses as TZ does.

    I think its unwise to assume a network is an altrusitic ‘fair’ communication method simply because it exists. Where money is used to support the network then suppression and censorship often exists.

    a) How can a member of this forum provide a resource to other users without ‘advertising anything’? – is this realistic?
    You simply provide an answer in the box which aids those reading it and doesnt encourage others to look offline, no uploads, just keep to the box. Thats it. Sorry if thats limits you but thats the rules of this and other forums.

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