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The leadership interview: Jerome Wargnier

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How do leaders ever learn? Jerome Wargnier has considered this question over the last 20 years. The Paris-based director of business consulting at CrossKnowledge is currently working on a whitepaper on this very subject.
Working with Charles Jennings, the paper will be entitled 'Effective Learning for the Extended Enterprise' and will look at how learning and development contributes to strategy and performance, key learning trends, how to create what the authors call 'a learning landscape' and advice on the 70-20-10 model. This postulates that 10% comes from formal structured training, 20% from sharing with others and gaining feedback and (the main point of the model) the remaining 70% and development takes place from experience on the job.
Having a model is one thing, but do leaders really believe in this method of learning? Wargnier finds that his leadership clients do not really want to be just coached and are certainly not willing to go back to the classroom. 
"I am convinced that experiential learning is the right path," says Wargnier and adds a further thought, "I am always a bit concerned about the definition of 'leadership'. Is it a set of skills for the happy few? I don't believe so and that view of the sole leader is a thing of the past. In this century, everyone has to become a leader. You have to lead yourself, of course; you have to be a decision maker, be creative, practical – business structures today are far less pyramidal and the trend will only continue."
"I am always a bit concerned about the definition of 'leadership'. Is it a set of skills for the happy few? I don't believe so and that view of the sole leader is a thing of the past. In this century, everyone has to become a leader."
Wargnier also challenges the distinction (false in his view) between leaders and managers. "If we say that somehow leaders are better than managers then here's a test – let's hang all managers and have only those designated as leaders and watch what happens." In Wargnier's comfortingly hypothetical example, the result would be business meltdown. "Thinking that leaders are somehow superior to managers is plain wrong," argues Wargnier, "Managers have to be leaders – they too have vision and after all, they are the ones who make things happen."
But isn't this flat hierarchy view far from reality today? Wargnier agrees that there is always a reporting structure but a business organisation where 'leaders' only provide a vision with no road map to get there is not likely to succeed. He believes that these days people want to take a lead in their working life, not just sit there and obey orders.
"Every company I see tells me that they want a leadership programme. I ask the question: why? What will be the big difference to the organisation a year after your people take the leadership programme?" Wargnier believes that organisations who call for leadership programmes do so because they simply believe it is flavour of the decade. "My first question to them is always: 'why do you need one?' A leadership programme is a waste of time and money if there is no problem to address. So begin with a strategy stake and not a solution. Will the company suffer if there is no leadership programme? Other questions that are important to consider include: What is the measurable expected outcome? What tangible impact will it have on the structure of the organisation? What possible conflicts might arise with the existing company culture, especially in a command-control culture. In fact, is everybody ready for this kind of change, including those at the top? To quote Robert Dilts, we have to migrate from the cult of a leader to a  to a leadership culture." This can lead to some pretty plain speaking to the existing leadership says Wargnier, The big question is usually, 'are you ready for that?'
So how does CrossKnowledge, with its emphasis on 'remote learning' via new technologies square with the issue of interpersonal experiential learning; can this really be done remotely? Wargnier says that this is a critical question for training organisations that offer courses via the internet. "In the scoping phase of a project we will combine everything we already have blending our relevant courses and methodologies but when we are talking about practice, it has to happen on the job. You can learn a lot online but you have to put in the practice time. You have to do it with real people."
To help people to do this you can offer remote, online material using video, podcasts, lectures from experts – all the latest techno-learning tools and on-site partners who direct and oversee the experiential part of the blend. "The key is in the instructional design of the programme making sure that we are offering courses that will address an issue. We also find it important to develop in our clients their curiosity, openness, empathy, assertiveness - all the behavioural skills you need for effective leadership. We don't do this alone: we partner with experts and coaches on the ground to work with our clients."
 
"The key is in the instructional design of the programme making sure that we are offering courses that will address an issue. We also find it important to develop in our clients their curiosity, openness, empathy, assertiveness - all the behavioural skills you need for effective leadership"
What makes a good remote learning package? According to Wargnier the technology has to be transparent, fully functional and the learning environment on screen has to be pleasing. The quality of the learning products is a given but the key is the instructional design and the power of your marketing – you need to attract people to the site. "We have to respect the learning profile of the learners – generational group, diverse cultures, different hierarchies...The material needs to be inspiring and get to the nub of what people need. Someone may only have 10 - 15 minutes to do some learning online – the material has to do the job in that short time. People are increasingly under pressure of time and the instructional design must take that into account."
How is that done? Says Wargnier, "I really believe in the power of narrative – almost like telling a story." He gives the example of a team leader who has to meet his or her people for the first time next month. The learning material does not give a long list of formidable skills to learn but takes the learner into the likely scenarios that will be encountered in a sequence – a story pattern. "If you just give people a long list of things they have to learn, it won't work. The old recipes of modules – classroom – modules just don't deliver anymore."
How do leaders learn? Maybe we are just beginning to find out.
 

Mike Levy is a freelance journalist and copywriter with 20 years' experience. He is also a writing and presentations coach. He especially loves playwriting and creating resources for schools. Mike is director of Write Start. For more information go to: www.writestart.co.uk

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